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Rob: Specifically, thanks to Kerrang! cos they pulled the plug on their support of Anvil just at that moment. It was unbelievable cos the label did its job and we got the front cover so it was fine, no problem. Then the review came out and they chopped it.

Lips: things were great for Hard.. and even better for Metal... but when Forged... came out they gave it a mediocre mark and said something like it sounded better in another room. Other people told us that the record sales weren't there and that Forged didn't do it. None of the majors wanted to pick us up but there was no hiatus, we've always been consistent but without the press we were unplugged. The difference between making it and not making it is an aspect of America which can work very detrimentally towards a band's creativity cos all of a sudden there's a money factor involved. Even the smell of money can wave everybody's attitude to each other in the band, the band's relationship to its record company, the band and its management, and the more the money the more intense those relationships can get. So nowadays I'm happy trading off that intensity and politics for less success although I'm also partially to blame in that I've not gone out to get that success back. But still, you have to have the right people behind you like a good production team otherwise its like an ant trying to move the Empire State building. And that's what it would've been like for Attic Records to have made us big in America at the time. They just didn't have the resources to get our material into the hands of the fans then. But let me say that it didn't stop our creativity and this band, cos we just kept going and to quickly bring you up to speed, we've now got 10 albums out and 'Plenty of Power' is the latest.

How did Anvil form?
Lips: Oh jeez, well Robb and I have been playing together since 1972 cos we grew up together and Anvil was actually just another one of a series of bands that we had put together thru the years. The earliest form of Anvil was a 3 piece - in fact called Lips - but then we evolved and became Anvil. But the actual band itself had been going for many years before - put it this way, we had been playing together for at least 2-3 years before Rush came out with their first album!

Whaaat?!
Lips: What's so surprising man? I mean, I'm 45 years old !!! Seriously - and this may sound bizarre to you and your readers but I've only ever seen Rush with John Rutsey (Rush's first drummer before legendary Neil Peart - SS)! I saw them at my high school and at this place called the Victory Burlesque House with Bloodrock opening - that's how far back I'm talking!!!

What's made you stick it out for so long?
Lips: Cos we made the decision to this as kids and that's just what we've done. When we were playing live as young kids I remember other musicians coming to watch us and they would mock us for not playing covers and playing our own songs.

Robb: Anvil's my ego trip man. We create music hear that allows the drums to be expressed how I feel - and like you said my drumming was articulate and could be appreciated as an instrument in itself, not just a backing to a guitar or vocal. My inspiration comes mainly from the old school drummers like Ginger Baker, Buddy Rich, and Ian Paice uh .people always ask me this question but I can't easily explain my style. I guess I smoke dope and I play and what you hear is what happens ha ha!

Lips: Rob and I like exactly the same things so when we create we do it together. How much more gratifying can it be for a drummer that a guitarist creates riffs with the drums in mind and vice - versa? Too many bands don't integrate the drums and yet they're an integral part of the music as they're the drive and rhythm of a band. Y'know, we may have had opportunities slip us by for business reasons but its nothing to do with the quality of our music - we're still as fuckin hardcore as we used to be! Our music has integrity and I'm still as nit picky and self critical over it as before and Rob's just as brutal. After all, if you have one of the greatest drummers around who also has one of the biggest metal collections around scrutinizing your work and telling you that a song really fuckin rips then it must be the truth right? We're always trying to compete with the metal classics but of course its impossible because really they can't be surpassed - I mean, how can you surpass 'Iron Man'?!?! So what I strive for is a song that tries to be as great as 'Iron Man' - not in terms of commerciality but a sound that stays in your head as a classic..

Robb: Uh, I think he's got the picture man ha ha! You didn't think we were this intense did you ha ha ha ha!?

Lips: No, lemme just finish by saying that I'm a lifer and I've altered my life so it fits what I wanna do. My relationship with Massacre Records is that they'll stick with me as long as I wanna make records - they're happy as long as we're happy making records.

Didn't you used to play in an S&M outfit Lips?
Lips: Yeah, but I mean, I'm not gay and nowadays I look back on it and I think 'what the fuck was I doing ha ha!?!?!'. It actually came from watching Hercules and gladiator movies rather than some bondage fetish .then came the dildo holster ha ha!

It was great to see you're still playing guitar with the ol' Doc Johnson!
Robb: Actually, some guy kept trying to grab it during the set and he musta stole it right after cos its gone hee hee

Lips: Yeah, but we got a great response unlike the some of the shows we played in our early days touring America where we'd be supporting some band playing Led Zep covers and then I'd pull out this dildo and start playing and the audience would be like 'oh no' in some embarrassed way and walk off. And they didn't even know what metal was. Jason Newstead once said to me 'Lips, you were 20 years ahead of your time man, and maybe someday the world'll catch up'.

Robb: I guess the only thing that's left from that time is the vibrator ha ha

What happened to previous members Dave Allison and Ian Dickenson?
Robb: The band outgrew them in every aspect, spiritually, musically, as people...

Lips (singing): "..He's a lumberjack and he's okaaayy.." - that's what Dave became ha ha!

Robb: Dave Allison found a new life and so did Ian Dickenson. Put it this way, they're not gonna put out solo albums ha ha!

Lips: Y'know I actually saw Ian recently (he builds fantasy model kits now for a living) and he said he missed playing live but that was the only thing he missed. And that's understandable cos apart from playing live the rest is fuckin SHIT! And that's how its been: I guess sometimes you play a good game of cards and sometimes you don't.